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SEX and Samzidata III
OK. Natalija over at the Libertarian Samzidata has once again taken me to task over sex.
A few notes (please excuse the length):
First of all I plead guilty to wanting to impose something on that little boy. I do not think 15 year-olds are autonomous adults that should be free to make whatever decisions they choose. I think there should be two levels of imposition, if you will, one by the state but the other and more important one by friends and family. First the state: yes I do believe that the state can and should impose certain standards of morality on people. The very basic one, one even the libertarians I believe see as necessary: preventing citizens from using force against others. But I also believe there are certain moral standards that should be imposed by communities and the prohibition against prostitution is one. I don?t believe prostitution is simply a transaction between consenting adults. Rather I believe it is an act that is deeply unhealthy and one that attacks the integrity of society. Living in a democracy, I believe that communities that share this view have the right to set this boundary if the majority so chooses. Intelligent people can argue about what is prudent in this situation but that is my view and I am glad others share that view in my community.
Now, when it comes to the complicated realm of relationships I am not one to impose legal sanctions. I personally have a moral standard that would be seen by most as very conservative and I try to live up to that standard but I often fail. I do not however seek to impose that on others by force or by law. Persuasion is the tool – humans are flawed yes but we need a standard. So when community and church leaders protested the supplying of the prostitute to that boy they were simply advocating their views and trying to persuade the community of its correctness. That is not force but advocacy.
Natalija then seems to equate my beliefs with some sort of right wing socialism or statism. I think this is unfair. Yes, I believe that prostitution should remain illegal but the rest of my concerns dealt with the family and friends of the 15 year-old. I was not calling for some state imposed counseling but rather sensitive friends and relatives providing guidance to a young man in a extremely difficult situation. I for one would be scarred to face a terminal illness. I was not even implying the child be give counseling in my particular faith, only that he be given the opportunity to grapple with his impending death with the benefit of wise counseling and good advice. Must he face death alone with only the wisdom of his 15 years? Is recommending that he talk to wise people suddenly a totalitarian imposition of state control? Perhaps I should have been clearer when discussing society. I did not mean to imply that society had the right to define all the boundaries of people’s lives but only that communities, and yes sometimes the state, needs to be involved in setting boundaries because order and safety are necessary for freedom to work. Most of the time I prefer mediating institutions set those boundaries: families, churches, volunteer organizations but a few ground rules by the state are necessary. In my mind prostitution is inherently a predatory and unhealthy situation and one that the state is best to discourage as effectively as it can within reason (I don’t for example favor hunting down prostitutes and stoning them).
I respect anyone one who has come out from under the dark cloud of communist totalitarianism able to argue for freedom and Natalija is a talented and passionate writer. But just because some one believes in state involvement, greatly limited, in personal choices does not make him a socialist or stateist or whatever brush I am being tarred with. To imply that conservatives and communists are the same thing is silly. Surely, Natalija is not falling for the old moral equivalency trap. As William F. Buckley famously noted (I am praphrasing here) there is a difference between a hoodlum pushing an old lady in front of a bus and a boy scout pushing her out of its way ? even though both are pushing old ladies. Please explain how one gets from prohibition of prostitution to gulags. Freedom of association is not an unlimited freedom and consensuality does not remove all moral questions.
I can see how Natalija?s beliefs lead her to her conclusion in this case but I am still surprised by the vehemence with which she attacks. Exactly where does civil society fit in? Is there a role for public morality? Or is the world simply full of autonomous individuals who should be allowed to do whatever they want short of killing others? Are there only two sides libertarianism and totalitarianism?
I have appreciated the deabte and I am honnored to have engaged such a wide ranging group of minds. Pehaps, however, I should move on? How about dogs vs. cats?