Even More Teen Sex! (no not that, a discussion of the issues! Sheeesh perverts!)
by Kevin
Glenn Reynolds most recent FOXNews column brings up the touchy subject of teen sex. This column is much better that his original off the cuff remarks but I think it still suffers from some skewered thinking.
His argument is “We have infantilised teen-agers, and then we act surprised that they behave immaturely.” I am not so sure this is the case. The immaturity comes not from treating them like kids but in treating them like modern adults. The pervasive lack of self-responsibility cuts across age – it is culture wide. Kids used to be treated not just as adults in training but as the responsibility of their parents. The left has pushed children as autonomous individuals with rights and desires that should be fulfilled regardless of what their parents think or wish. This is at the root of bad behavior – a belief that you can do whatever you want and anyone who disagrees is assaulting your freedom. We give teenagers money, access to cars, and all sorts of autonomy. We let them wear whatever they want, do whatever they want, and go wherever they want. Since when is that infatalizing? The irony in Glen’s argument is that we treat teenagers, or at least a huge chunk of the middle class and above not as children but as like independently wealthy adults – the abilities and freedoms of adults but without the burdens.
I agree with Glen that responsibility is a key to mature behavior, I just think that treating children like adults is unlikely to work in our current culture. As long as parents believe that they have limited rights and abilities to control their kids development; as long as they delegate their children’s growth and knowledge to outsiders like educators and the media; as long as physical pleasure, complete privacy, and autonomy are seen as a inherent, and the most important, rights for minors regardless of their parents views; then responsibility – be it more work, chores, or bills – is unlikely to change anything.
Kevin! You got your InstaLink! Congratulations!
You’re both right!
Children are given no respoect, no responsibilty, no punishments, and far too much money they didn’t have to earn.
Well, most of them. I’d say my parents did a pretty good job. Of course, I also had sex as a teenager. ;) But I did end up marrying the guy.
You know I think you’re right. I was going to say something about this — I had noticed one day, a few years back, that there were no adults left. Sure, there were older people, but they all acted like large, wrinkly kids. Okay, so I overgeneralize, but I’m old enough to remember when adults definitely had a grownup life of their own that we were not privileged to attend (it was phrased as: “You’re not old enough,” or “When you get older”). We had a _bedtime_ — none of this stay up all night at the computer or watching cable tv nonsense. Those latter two things did not exist in the average home anyway. Grownups dressed to go out, they did not pull on sweats and stuff the SUV (which didn’t exist either) with a million toys. And so on and so forth.
I know I resented this state of affairs like hell — I didn’t so much want to be an adult as to be _treated like_ an adult, all the while being waited on hand and foot by my slaves — I mean, parents. I wanted all of what I thought were the perks of adulthood — money, to be the center of attention due to the wondrous glory of _my_ thoughts, and so on — without any of the responsibility. I don’t think I was a weird or atypical kid either. My parents were too strong-willed, or at least wily, to give in to me; but at some point the mass of parents changed their methods.
I go to college. I’m old enough to be a parent to some of my classmates. Even though most of these kids are technically adults, they are still clueless about a _lot_ of things. What makes people think high school kids are any smarter?
I think you’ve got it exactly right, Kevin. I’ve run into too many parents, my age and older, who appear to have a horror of being authority figures, of laying down the law. All the invocations of earlier times when men were men and teens were men are also invocations of times with clearly defined and socially enforced sexual mores.
High school is a massive time waster – but simply giving teens more responsibility (like a job) would in itself solve nothing. I had a job as soon as I was old enough to work, because I needed the money for college. But that isn’t what kept me from being (too) stupid. Mom and pop had to 1)impart the idea that responsible sex involved more than learning how to put on a condom, and, let’s face it, 2)put the hammer down when necessary. Without that this job was just another opportunity to meet people with whom to have sex and get drugs. Many of my co-workers used it that way, even those whose income from the job wasn’t just for toys or saving. (And that was 30 years ago.)
“The immaturity comes not from treating them like kids but in treating them like modern adults.”
So modern adults get free room and board, an allowance, and maybe a car paid for by their parents? Modern
adults have their livelihoods guaranteed no
matter how pathetically little effort they
put forth?
Well, there is a subclass of modern adult for
which this is true – the welfare client.
They don’t tend to display the kind of behavior that we want from our kids, although
they do display behavior that is disturbingly
similar to what we get from teenagers today…
laziness, irresponsibility, etc.
This is not to say that we are mere creatures
of our environment, but that rational
creatures do tend to adjust their behavior
to achieve optimal satisfaction given the
incentives present in the environment. Since
laziness and irresponsibility doesn’t cost them their livelihood,
and since hard work doesn’t shorten their
sentences, it is perfectly rational for them
to be lazy and irresponsible.
“The pervasive lack of self-responsibility cuts across age – it is culture wide.”
I wouldn’t say that. Most adults pay their own way, and display diligence and responsibility in response to the incentives they face, which rewards such behaviors and punishes laziness and irresponsibility.
“as long as they delegate their children’s growth and knowledge to outsiders like educators and the media; as long as physical pleasure, complete privacy, and autonomy are seen as a inherent, and the most important, rights for minors regardless of their parents views; then responsibility – be it more work, chores, or bills – is unlikely to change anything.”
It might give him less time to get into trouble, and give him some practice at some particular skill. But if you want consistently responsible and industrious behavior, you’re going to have to let him be in an environment that rewards such behavior – and by that standard, nothing beats living on your own and paying your own way.
“I know I resented this state of affairs like hell — I didn’t so much want to be an adult as to be _treated like_ an adult, all the while being waited on hand and foot by my slaves — I mean, parents. I wanted all of what I thought were the perks of adulthood — money, to be the center of attention due to the wondrous glory of _my_ thoughts, and so on — without any of the responsibility.”
Hell, lots of people want that today. The ideal situation is to let them have the “perks” and the responsibility as soon as possible, so as to encourage responsible behavior.
And as Glen said, this would not require a massive change. If the schools would simply stop giving massive breaks, that would cut three years off everyone’s sentence. If they’d stop blatantly stalling with snail’s pace curriculums during the time that the classes were in session, you’d add even more time to our offspring’s effective lifetimes.
Basically my biggest issue, is there has to be respect involved. I totally agree that kids are given way to much “stuff” that they didnt earn, but then there are some who deserve what they get, and work tirelessly to be considered an “adult” in their parents eyes. I know this is true because thats how my parents raised me. I fell in love junior year in high school, and am now engaged to the lovely girl after 6 years of being together. Yes im young, but sex in high school is all a matter of individual maturity. We were both ready, and knew the consequences and hazards, but knew how much we loved each other. So its all in the eyes of the beholder. Some kids arent ready until theyre out of college. However, some are ready by their sophmore year of highschool, often even earlier! This is how the times are changing. Children are just too grown up too early. They mature much faster due to an ever maturing world around them. Times are a changing. I hear a 4th grader curse off his mother the other day? Is that normal!!!!!