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	<title>Comments on: Hypotheticals, Free Speech, and Over-reaction</title>
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	<link>http://www.kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/</link>
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		<title>By: Shane</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-1113</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2003 02:48:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/#comment-1113</guid>
		<description>What is terrorism? Is terrorism only linked to Islamic principles? I would suggess the Irish will tell you differently. If you remember, the anthrax mailer didn&#039;t send any mail to any conservative Senators, so this idea of Conservative vs. Liberal terrorism has already been created. For your amusement, I have taken the liberty of changing Mark&#039;s language just a tad. I&#039;m catholic btw, but I don&#039;t subscribe to the current climate of hate speech the left and right are so fond of.

Note-I am NOT advocating the following fantasy episode, but it has a following in the darker parts of my mind.

WASHINGTON-January 6, 2004. A paramilitary organization calling itself the Islamic Liberation Front shocked the nation by a pair of brutal attacks this afternoon. A force estimated at about 200 ILF commandos stormed the Supreme Court building, killing 35 people, including five Supreme Court Justices. At the same time, a contingent of 1,000 ILF paramilitaries attacked the Hart Senate Office Building, where a Senate Democratic Caucus meeting was being held. Approximately 150 people were killed in the attack. Once the commandos had seized the building, they systematically killed 64 Senators and over 90 staff members . Here is a temporary list of the Senators we have lost. Killed were Bill Frist Daniel Akaka  Trent Lott Byron Dorgan  George Voinovich Mary Landrieu John McCain John Warner John Breaux  Bob Graham  Blanche Lincoln Mike Dewine Zell Miller
Hillary Clinton  Michael Crappo Ernest Hollings  Barbara Mikulski  Kent Conrad  Daniel Inouyye  David Pryor  Tom Daschle  Tim Johnson  Harry Reid

ETC. ETC. ETC.


Mark Dayton  Ted Kennedy  Paul Sarbanes
Chris Dodd  John Kerry  Chuch Schumer

Joe Lieberman was campaigning in South Carolina, and missed the assassins. The attackers turned themselves in to police, and are proudly confessing their crimes, cooperating with authorities.

If the governors appoint Republican replacements, there will be 72 Republicans in the US Senate until replacement elections can be held. Even if a few Democrats are named, there will be likely at least 60 votes to vote for cloture and appoint replacements for the slain Supreme Court justices, changing the balance of power on the court.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is terrorism? Is terrorism only linked to Islamic principles? I would suggess the Irish will tell you differently. If you remember, the anthrax mailer didn&#8217;t send any mail to any conservative Senators, so this idea of Conservative vs. Liberal terrorism has already been created. For your amusement, I have taken the liberty of changing Mark&#8217;s language just a tad. I&#8217;m catholic btw, but I don&#8217;t subscribe to the current climate of hate speech the left and right are so fond of.</p>
<p>Note-I am NOT advocating the following fantasy episode, but it has a following in the darker parts of my mind.</p>
<p>WASHINGTON-January 6, 2004. A paramilitary organization calling itself the Islamic Liberation Front shocked the nation by a pair of brutal attacks this afternoon. A force estimated at about 200 ILF commandos stormed the Supreme Court building, killing 35 people, including five Supreme Court Justices. At the same time, a contingent of 1,000 ILF paramilitaries attacked the Hart Senate Office Building, where a Senate Democratic Caucus meeting was being held. Approximately 150 people were killed in the attack. Once the commandos had seized the building, they systematically killed 64 Senators and over 90 staff members . Here is a temporary list of the Senators we have lost. Killed were Bill Frist Daniel Akaka  Trent Lott Byron Dorgan  George Voinovich Mary Landrieu John McCain John Warner John Breaux  Bob Graham  Blanche Lincoln Mike Dewine Zell Miller<br />
Hillary Clinton  Michael Crappo Ernest Hollings  Barbara Mikulski  Kent Conrad  Daniel Inouyye  David Pryor  Tom Daschle  Tim Johnson  Harry Reid</p>
<p>ETC. ETC. ETC.</p>
<p>Mark Dayton  Ted Kennedy  Paul Sarbanes<br />
Chris Dodd  John Kerry  Chuch Schumer</p>
<p>Joe Lieberman was campaigning in South Carolina, and missed the assassins. The attackers turned themselves in to police, and are proudly confessing their crimes, cooperating with authorities.</p>
<p>If the governors appoint Republican replacements, there will be 72 Republicans in the US Senate until replacement elections can be held. Even if a few Democrats are named, there will be likely at least 60 votes to vote for cloture and appoint replacements for the slain Supreme Court justices, changing the balance of power on the court.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-1112</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2003 02:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/#comment-1112</guid>
		<description>I suppose the real question here is how would the more conservative members of this blog community feel if someone posted a long diatribe about assassinating the Republican members of the Supreme Court and Republican Senators from Democratic States.

It&#039;s easy for someone to say, &quot;I don&#039;t support this.&quot; But the author could be posting this to plant the seed in the mind of an unstable reader. Perhaps one of his students?

I really don&#039;t you would be so kind to the author if he was talking about conservatives dying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose the real question here is how would the more conservative members of this blog community feel if someone posted a long diatribe about assassinating the Republican members of the Supreme Court and Republican Senators from Democratic States.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s easy for someone to say, &#8220;I don&#8217;t support this.&#8221; But the author could be posting this to plant the seed in the mind of an unstable reader. Perhaps one of his students?</p>
<p>I really don&#8217;t you would be so kind to the author if he was talking about conservatives dying.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-1111</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/#comment-1111</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;I find his resons for opposing the hypothetical mass murder almost as repulsive as the plan itself; if I understand him correctly, the standard for the appropriateness of opposition to government policy...is based solely on effectiveness; both protesting Judge Moore&#039;s monument and killing all liberal Supreme Court justices and Democrat Senators from states with Republican Governors are innapropriate because they would give too little lasting political change in return for too much bad PR for Christ.... I think it&#039;s completely fair to assume he&#039;s supporting the mass killing, if there were somewhat more advantageous circumstances.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;&lt;p&gt;Oh get off yourself, this is ridiculous.  Just because Byron used a totally Machiavellian analysis doesn&#039;t mean that he doesn&#039;t also reject the scenario for the more obvious reasons--that it&#039;d be evil, treasonous, etc.  If you can&#039;t analyze something from a pure, cold, rational, amoral, heartless, calculating viewpoint in order to weigh the benefits and disadvantages of a particular course of action, you have clearly never participated in a marketing scheme or a campaign of any type (ad, political, etc.). Indeed, such thought amoral exercises are necessary for policymakers in areas like foreign policy; they must imagine the possible scenarios that can take place, and understanding the harsh reality of our Hobbesian world is imperative to formulating realistic responses to the various challenges we face out there.
&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;I find his resons for opposing the hypothetical mass murder almost as repulsive as the plan itself; if I understand him correctly, the standard for the appropriateness of opposition to government policy&#8230;is based solely on effectiveness; both protesting Judge Moore&#8217;s monument and killing all liberal Supreme Court justices and Democrat Senators from states with Republican Governors are innapropriate because they would give too little lasting political change in return for too much bad PR for Christ&#8230;. I think it&#8217;s completely fair to assume he&#8217;s supporting the mass killing, if there were somewhat more advantageous circumstances.</i>&#8220;
<p>Oh get off yourself, this is ridiculous.  Just because Byron used a totally Machiavellian analysis doesn&#8217;t mean that he doesn&#8217;t also reject the scenario for the more obvious reasons&#8211;that it&#8217;d be evil, treasonous, etc.  If you can&#8217;t analyze something from a pure, cold, rational, amoral, heartless, calculating viewpoint in order to weigh the benefits and disadvantages of a particular course of action, you have clearly never participated in a marketing scheme or a campaign of any type (ad, political, etc.). Indeed, such thought amoral exercises are necessary for policymakers in areas like foreign policy; they must imagine the possible scenarios that can take place, and understanding the harsh reality of our Hobbesian world is imperative to formulating realistic responses to the various challenges we face out there.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-1110</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/#comment-1110</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not going to say whether I think this is right or wrong, but I can certainly imagine the hoopla that would have hit the fan if someone had said the same thing about Republican senators or presidents. The writer probably would have been spirited away by Patriot Act-wielding agents the instant it hit the net.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not going to say whether I think this is right or wrong, but I can certainly imagine the hoopla that would have hit the fan if someone had said the same thing about Republican senators or presidents. The writer probably would have been spirited away by Patriot Act-wielding agents the instant it hit the net.</p>
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		<title>By: Bernard</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-1109</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2003 01:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/#comment-1109</guid>
		<description>&quot;We have a flawed but functional democracy and a legal system that generally protects our rights. Were we to advocate the creation of the CLF, we would start down the road to anarchy...&quot;

Seems like a pretty clear renunciation to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We have a flawed but functional democracy and a legal system that generally protects our rights. Were we to advocate the creation of the CLF, we would start down the road to anarchy&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Seems like a pretty clear renunciation to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Coates</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-1108</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Coates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2003 21:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/#comment-1108</guid>
		<description>When I started reading Mr. Byron&#039;s post, I thought it was paranoid leftist hyperbole about how the crazy Christians were coming to kill us all, so I was quite surprised to find it take a turn into an explanation of why we shouldn&#039;t kill the Democrats--yet.

I find his resons for opposing the hypothetical mass murder almost as repulsive as the plan itself; if I understand him correctly, the standard for the appropriateness of opposition to government policy (or private actions, see the previous post referring to abortion clinics) is based solely on effectiveness;  both protesting Judge Moore&#039;s monument and killing all liberal Supreme Court justices and Democrat Senators from states with Republican Governors are innapropriate because they would give too little lasting political change in return for too much bad PR for Christ.

I don&#039;t think it&#039;s unreasonable to accuse someone of secretly supporting something they describe in loving detail and then (sort of) denounce... Particularly in this case, where I think it&#039;s completely fair to assume he&#039;s supporting the mass killing, if there were somewhat more advantageous circumstances.

--
Benjamin Coates

p.s.
M. Simon: are you taking about Jim Bell&#039;s &quot;Assassination Politics&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I started reading Mr. Byron&#8217;s post, I thought it was paranoid leftist hyperbole about how the crazy Christians were coming to kill us all, so I was quite surprised to find it take a turn into an explanation of why we shouldn&#8217;t kill the Democrats&#8211;yet.</p>
<p>I find his resons for opposing the hypothetical mass murder almost as repulsive as the plan itself; if I understand him correctly, the standard for the appropriateness of opposition to government policy (or private actions, see the previous post referring to abortion clinics) is based solely on effectiveness;  both protesting Judge Moore&#8217;s monument and killing all liberal Supreme Court justices and Democrat Senators from states with Republican Governors are innapropriate because they would give too little lasting political change in return for too much bad PR for Christ.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s unreasonable to accuse someone of secretly supporting something they describe in loving detail and then (sort of) denounce&#8230; Particularly in this case, where I think it&#8217;s completely fair to assume he&#8217;s supporting the mass killing, if there were somewhat more advantageous circumstances.</p>
<p>&#8211;<br />
Benjamin Coates</p>
<p>p.s.<br />
M. Simon: are you taking about Jim Bell&#8217;s &#8220;Assassination Politics&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel McAndrew</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-1107</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel McAndrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2003 21:31:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/#comment-1107</guid>
		<description>Quite right, Nero.
I should have checked. My mistake.

At least someone did, and that is at least half the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quite right, Nero.<br />
I should have checked. My mistake.</p>
<p>At least someone did, and that is at least half the point.</p>
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		<title>By: Buster</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-1106</link>
		<dc:creator>Buster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2003 18:16:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/#comment-1106</guid>
		<description>Heaven forbid we every think of killing anyone. Let&#039;s just give all the terrorists a lollipop and be friends. Some of you PC assholes are enough to make a body with a strong stomach sick. As for Rall, that sorry prick should be put against a wall and shot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heaven forbid we every think of killing anyone. Let&#8217;s just give all the terrorists a lollipop and be friends. Some of you PC assholes are enough to make a body with a strong stomach sick. As for Rall, that sorry prick should be put against a wall and shot.</p>
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		<title>By: Nero</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-1105</link>
		<dc:creator>Nero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/#comment-1105</guid>
		<description>I guess no one around here would think to run a quick Google and find out that the Mercury Theatre was the radio show that put on Orson Welles.
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.unknown.nu/mercury/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.unknown.nu/mercury/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.unknown.nu/mercury/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
Firesign Theater was a comedy group.  Such awesome research lends real credibility to one&#039;s arguments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess no one around here would think to run a quick Google and find out that the Mercury Theatre was the radio show that put on Orson Welles.<br />
<a href="http://www.unknown.nu/mercury/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.unknown.nu/mercury/" rel="nofollow">http://www.unknown.nu/mercury/</a><br />
Firesign Theater was a comedy group.  Such awesome research lends real credibility to one&#8217;s arguments.</p>
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		<title>By: F451</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-1104</link>
		<dc:creator>F451</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/15/hypotheticals-free-speech-and-over-reaction/#comment-1104</guid>
		<description>&quot;...the Firesign Theater&#039;s broadcast of War of the Worlds as narrated by Orson Well[e]s...&quot;

(Wha!?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;the Firesign Theater&#8217;s broadcast of War of the Worlds as narrated by Orson Well[e]s&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>(Wha!?)</p>
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